Five Tests of true religion - Feb 08, 2002
Let's be reasonable when it comes the most abstruse science of God (wisdom), the ignorant (by repenting) and the wise (by austerity) can never reap the same rewards.
Past dialogues debunking Religion
Other discussion boards:- Can a fool, fool God? Do all paths lead to God? Debunking evolution
This man is India's Benedict Arnold. A traitor to his country of birth and the glorious Indian culture. Is it because he came to the West in his teens a good reason he did so? I'm of the same age and was born and raised in the West, never went to India, and yet I'm loyal and grateful to India for what she has done for me and the world.
Your statement would leave one to believe that an individual from India doesn’t have a right to choose their own path in life; that they aren’t allowed to be a free thinker and that if they deviate from their traditional Indian culture they are a traitor. That seems to be a very controlling mindset. What are the repercussions of a free minded spirit, rejection, shunning, reasons to live in fear or the fear of losing their family’s? Doesn’t seem like a very loving religion if you treat someone who doesn’t believe the same way you do with such destructive actions.
Sure you've a right to choose your own path, but only after you've done the serious task of comparative studies of all religions to ascertain the truth as I have done.
If not whatever he is preaching are all lies which isn't good for him or his followers.
So you are assuming that you have done more research than Ravi has done. Do you assume this because you have come to different conclusions? As a result of differing conclusions, you assume that you are correct and he is incorrect; but again, you have reached that conclusion only by the interpretation of your own studies. What good is the research you do if the outcome only validates the answers that you have already determined you want to reach? I find more credibility in an individual that searches with and open mind and finds and accepts truth even if that truth isn’t what they wanted or hoped to find. Which one of the hindu gods sacrificed everything for those that believed in them, without requiring something in return? Jesus Christ laid down his life for everyone, that includes you, even if you never choose to follow him or his gospel. Christ did this because he is the only way to the Father, so he took up this sacrifice and laid down his life so that you could (at any point in your life) change and decide to accept the truth and follow him. This isn’t the consequences of a hateful creator but the willful decision of a loving God. Jesus is God because the father (Yahweh) and the son (Jesus/Yeshua) are one. Jesus paid the price we owe for natural sin. The price paid by Christ would have been in vain if not for his resurrection from the dead. His resurrection proved his ability to conquer dead itself. Victory for you and me belongs only to Jesus Christ and that is why we cannot boast; nothing we can do can help us achieve heaven, glory, or true righteousness. It is only because of Jesus Christ. Christians throughout time have made terrible, horrible mistakes. Some were true believers, maybe some were not but claimed to be (for whatever reason they may have had), but no matter, it is not for me to judge, nor to condemn. What I do know is that true peace can only be found in Jesus Christ and salvation is only his to grant.
So you are assuming that you have done more research than Ravi has done.
Vj ~ It is not an assumption when it was done with the desire of discovering the truth.
you have reached that conclusion only by the interpretation of your own studies.
Vj ~ The conclusion is harmony with reasoning and science and in conformity with the laws of nature. How could I go wrong?
What good is the research you do if the outcome only validates the answers that you have already determined you want to reach?
Vj ~ The definition I gave is universal and it validates all answers and debunks all that is false.
I find more credibility in an individual that searches with and open mind
Vj ~ How would you know what is an open mind when you've been brainwashed all your life with one theology and only one?
Which one of the hindu gods
Vj ~ You spoke of open mind and in spite of link to my faith, you still think I'm a Hindu.
Jesus Christ laid down his life for everyone, that includes you, even if you never choose to follow him or his gospel.
Vj ~ That's what you've been brainwashed to believe, but if you can think, you might ask yourself, why not for those in the past or in remote regions who never heard of him.
Jesus is God because the father (Yahweh) and the son (Jesus/Yeshua) are one.
Vj ~ Now you're not a fool but a dumb-a-s-s hypocrite.
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." Thomas Jefferson
What I do know is that true peace can only be found in Jesus Christ and salvation is only his to grant.
Vj ~ In the state of stupidity that may sound good for you, but not for those who reason.
"It is only by the exercise of reasoning, that man can discover God." Thomas Paine
I would also disagree with you when you state that you have a right to choose “only after you’ve done the serious task of comparative studies...” It is true that studies can be very helpful, but every human being has the right to choose whether they study and compare or not. You have free will. Yahweh gave you that will to choose, even if you choose against him and truth. He will not force you to follow him, you choose. True salvation or condemnation rests on you and your willingness to accept truth or to deny it.
Thank you Thom, I do admire your courage to challenge me which Ravi dodged for over 20 years. Now he is dead!
"so you are assuming that you have done more research than Ravi has done."
Vj ~ Where have I indicated it was an assumption? - vjsingh.info
"What good is the research you do if the outcome only validates the answers that you have already determined you want to reach?"
Vj ~ My answers are universally valid because they are in harmony with reasoning, science and most important they conform to the laws of nature.
"Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind." Einstein
"Jesus Christ laid down his life for everyone, that includes you,"
Vj ~ It is a grave injustice to deprive millions before and in remote regions of the world who never heard of Jesus.
"If there is a God who has created heaven and earth, it will be unjust on His part if He deprived millions of souls born before Moses, of His divine knowledge." Prof. Max Muller.
"it is not for me to judge, nor to condemn"
Vj ~ How can you when you're the same dumb-a-s-s as Ravi who haven't given any serious thought to comparative studies of religion.
Are you saying your conclusion is sensible when you don't know crap of the other religions?
Here is my final thought. If the souls are finite (created) how can they enjoy eternal salvation when only that which has no beginning has no end?
I find it interesting that you would refer to me as a dumb-a-s-s; that will help break down barriers in our conversation.
Obviously you know what research you have done, but it would be an assumption that you have done more research than Ravi unless you know for certain what research Ravi has done. I do not know the amount of research either of you have conducted, nor do I make assumptions. You say that your answers are “universally valid because they are in harmony with reasoning, science and most important they conform to the laws of nature.” But that is all conjuncture.
Sure there are many that would agree with you (you obviously do not stand alone), but there are just as many that would stand against you and make the same claims. So your claims in and of themselves hold no real validity. The earth is filled with the evidence of God; every created thing testifies of the creator. For you to judge or to assume that I would judge the eternal future of anyone is incorrect. I make no claim in how God (Yahweh) will judge any human being and my opinion on His judgements do not weigh into the decision; He is God, I am not. You call it a grave injustice, but you do not know what He knows and you have not seen what He has seen, in the very heart of mankind.
Again, I really don’t believe you know what Ravi has done or hasn’t done; you certainly do not know what studies I have done or haven’t done. You clearly validate that your own studies have provided yourself with the “evidence” you need to justify the outcome that you wanted to achieve in the first place. I am studying other religions, not because I have doubts about what I believe, but because I think it is important to know what others believe. I have not ridiculed you for the belief that you have chosen to accept, but instead have made attempts to show you a different way.
If you choose to ridicule those of different believe systems than your own, then you really don’t show any evidence of having true peace. I want to share because I have complete peace and know who I have confidence in for my salvation. God is the only one that has no beginning and no end, but as a created being we now have no ending; where we will spend the days of that eternity stand in front of us and the future decisions that we make. Choose life. Choose truth. Choose Jesus (Yeshua).
"A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right and evil doesn't become good just because it's accepted by a majority." Booker T. Washington
"I find it interesting that you would refer to me as a dumb-a-s-s;"
Vj ~ Don't feel so bad you've a lot of company, almost 2.5 billion.
"that will help break down barriers in our conversation."
Vj ~ Ignorance doesn't break barriers, it strengthens them.
"unless you know for certain what research Ravi has done."
Vj ~ What else is to know, he is a Christian. "Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool." Mark Twain
"I do not know the amount of research either of you have conducted"
Vj ~ Here is a chance to know what I have done - vjsingh.info. And again I would say, only a ******* would pass up the opportunity.
"But that is all conjuncture."
Vj ~ Very true, truth is all "conjuncture" to the ignorant.
"Sure there are many that would agree with you"
Vj ~ Wrong! The company of the wise are only a few.
"Philosophy and reason will remain the most beautiful sanctuary they have always been for the select few." Albert Einstein
"but there are just as many that would stand against you"
Vj ~ Right! "It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled." Mark Twain
"The earth is filled with the evidence of God"
Vj ~ I'm not denying that, but I question the God that says it's flat.
"He is God"
Vj ~ And I'm saying he (Yahweh) isn't God, for he was, you would know what he was doing before this creation.
"but you do not know what He knows"
Vj ~ If you don't know what he knows, how do you know that he knows?
you need to justify the outcome that you wanted to achieve in the first place"
Vj ~ How is that possible for an i-d-i-o-t who fails at reasoning?
"The greatest torture in the world for most people is to think."
"I think it is important to know what others believe."
Vj ~ Ignorance can only be dispelled by the promotion of the correct knowledge.
So COMPARATIVE STUDIES OF RELIGIONS SHOULD SERVE ONLY ONE PURPOSE, THAT OF REVEALING THE TRUTH, otherwise what benefit would it be to you to know what others believe?
"but as a created being we now have no ending;"
Vj ~ That's not what the dictionary and the law (natural) says dumb-a-s-s. Unless you think God is above the law which cannot be the trait of an all-perfect God. Whatever has a beginning (created) must come to an end.
"where we will spend the days of that eternity"
Vj ~ And what will you be doing in your "days of that eternity" - scratching your balls?
You're vain and pompous aren't you. So what is your point in quoting their vast array of wisdom, does it validate your opinion? Your responses really hold no significant value. In fact they are really quite lazy in effort.
He is God and I don't believe that the world is flat. " If I used your same logic it won't provide me with truth. Do you refer to your worshipers as "dumb-a-s-s-es"? No man is perfect!
You're vain and pompous aren't you.
Vj ~ It may appear so, because everything calculated to advance the dissemination of truth is like poison to a fool.
So what is your point in quoting their vast array of wisdom, does it validate your opinion?
Vj ~ Certainly not an idiot, but there could be someone who thirst for truth may stumble on this dialogue someday.
"your responses really hold no significant value."
Vj ~ Can you tell me of any idiot like yourself that you know who is looking for "significant value"?
In fact they are really quite lazy in effort.
Vj ~ God has no cure for a fool (the brainwashed). Those who find reasoning to be torturous are the lazy ones who just sit on their ass waiting to be saved without making an effort. If you can't earn a Ph.D that way then most certainly you can't earn salvation that way.
He is God
Vj ~ Says who? The very book that says the sun is moving?
Joshua 10:12: Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:
"Sun, stand still over Gibeon; And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon."
Joshua 13: So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies.
I don't believe that the world is flat
Vj ~ Why then so many Greek philosophers were persecuted (Bruno, Galileo, etc.) for saying otherwise?
If I used your same logic
Vj ~ That's big "If"! Since you can use so loosely why not claim you're the son of God.
it won't provide me with truth
Vj ~ Very true! There is no cure for a fool.
"The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it." Ayn Rand
Do you refer to your worshipers as "dumb-a-s-ses?"
Vj ~ No, only to those who worship a God who doesn't know what he was doing before now.
No man is perfect
Vj ~ But God/Jesus is supposed to be, and if he doesn't know what he was doing before this creation, he is certainly not perfect.
Anyways, how is it possible for a dumb-a-s-s to know who is perfect?