The power of perfect reasoning is essential to know.

The one true religion

A discriminating intellect is that in which knowledge based only on words, real knowledge and ordinary knowledge based on sense perception or reasoning are present in a mixed state and the mind alternates between them.

"When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted." Vridha Chan. 16:17.
Topic of discussion
Five Tests of true religion - Feb 08, 2002
  1. It (revelation) must exist in its entirety from the very beginning of creation for all of mankind, and not over a long period of time after.
    Oppose - It is unjust of Yahwe, Allah and Christ, to deprive millions born before the revelation of the Ten Commandments, the Q'uran, and the New Testament of His 'divine wisdom'. An injustice which cannot be the work of a Just, Compassionate and Merciful God.
  2. It must conform with (immutable) Natural laws
  3. Oppose - The cause of the physical body is the reproductive element - any other method as man was created from dust or blood-clot and all other miracles of God and Prophets are a breach to this law.
  4. It must be in harmony with reasoning.
    Oppose - Incest which results in mental and physical infirmities, is an immoral action and it had to be the same also in the beginning (creation of one man and one woman).
  5. It must be in harmony with science.
    Oppose - Modern science has proven creation to be more than 6,000 years old, the earth is spherical and it rotates and revolves, contradictions to the Torah, Bible and Q'uran.
  6. Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences :-
  • Direct Cognition - Not all that is known by perception can be true.
  • Inferences - God is eternal therefore we can infer that there were past creations and as well as there will be future ones.
  • Testimony - The testimonies of Rishis, sages and seers of the Vedas (altruistic teachers are all in harmony with each other.
  • History - There are many books (Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayan) and source of other civilization which speak of the past ancient Vedic (Aryas) civilization of 5,000 years ago and earlier.

Let's be reasonable when it comes the most abstruse science of God (wisdom), the ignorant (by repenting) and the wise (by austerity) can never reap the same rewards.

WARNING! Reader's discretion is advised - the truth offends!
Past dialogues debunking Religion
Other discussion boards:-  Can a fool, fool God?    Do all paths lead to God?   Debunking evolution
The one true religion
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth." Plato
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Debate topic is what is the point of the universe if there is no God?

Do good and be good!

Re: Debate topic is what is the point of the universe if there is no God?

"Do good and be good." Virtue practice in ignorance is still ignorance.

1. Nothing in this world can be produced without proper application." Mimansa
2. "Nothing can be done or made without the expenditure of time." Vaisheshika
3. "Nothing in this world can be produced without the material cause." Niyaya
4. "Nothing can be made without the requisite skill, knowledge and thought." Yoga
5. "Nothing can be made without the definite combination of atoms." Sankhaya
6. "Nothing can be made without a Maker." Vedanta

FACT: Creation of the world or anything created by man can never come into being without a maker, material, skill/knowledge, time, space and labour/instrument.

Re: Debate topic is what is the point of the universe if there is no God?

But you know that's wrong. A river isn't caused by a "rivermaker". Or rather, it's not caused by an intelligent rivermaker. It's caused by the shape of the terrain, and by weather systems causing rain which hits the mountain and flows downhill, forming a river. In fact at scale (asteroids, moons, planets, stars, solar systems, galaxies, nebulae, black holes, etc) everything we've seen appears to have been caused by non-intelligent processes like this, and so what you're saying appears to be just flat-out wrong.

Re: Debate topic is what is the point of the universe if there is no God?

Appears? Is that the word you're counting on to support your opinion, Sir?

Rivers have their purpose, like all things created by man. A river's purpose is water to sustain life of all kinds.

The moons, planets, stars,etc., all have a positive effect on humanity on the whole.
The earth rotates and revolves around the sun giving us the concept of time which never failed us. That can't be an accident.
If you need to move ON

"Science is without religion is lame, ..........." Albert Einstein

Re: Debate topic is what is the point of the universe if there is no God?

Did you ignore my point because you agree with me? I pointed to things with non-intelligent causes to dispute your claim the world must've been caused with skill/knowledge (intelligence). Unless you have evidence those things were caused with skill/knowledge, you haven't addressed my point.

Rational people form their opinions by evidence -- appearance -- because it's the only reliable way to know truth. Feel free to try to establish any alternate way of knowing truth that's as reliable as evidence. (Nobody I've asked to do this has even attempted to do it.)

What do you mean by "can't be an accident"? Do you understand gravity and why the Earth rotates around the Sun? By natural law alone (without intelligent intervention or planning) we would expect the Earth to rotate regularly and orbit the sun regularly.

In fact it'd be evidence of some additional force (possibly intelligent) if the Earth DID NOT rotate every ~24 hours, or DID NOT have regular years.

Why are you so eager to call something "god"? You clearly don't have evidence of this god, you're just vaguely pointing to natural laws and claiming false things about what our observations tell us.

Re: Debate topic is what is the point of the universe if there is no God?

I do agree with your rejection of a God based on all the irrational Abrahamic religions, but when something more rational is presented before you why not show some interest?

The six causes I listed are rational ones and they go for all things created by an all-intelligent designer and man. You won't accept it, but that's ok, but if you have the desire you will peruse my work and then comment.

"Why are you so eager to call something "god"?"

Vj ~ I was an atheist for 20 years before I began my inquires and it took me another 20 years to find the truth of man and the universe.

"You clearly don't have evidence of this god,"
Vj ~ I do have the evidence but it is for my own benefit and if you need it, be prepared to sacrifice 20 years of your life, as I did, to find it. There is no short cut to wisdom.

"you're just vaguely pointing to natural laws"
Vj ~ "But there is another prejudice which is cherished by many scholars evidently under the impression of its being a well-recognized scientific doctrine. It is that in the ruder stages of civilization when the laws of nature are little known and but little understood when mankind has not enough of the experience of the world, strict methods of correct reasoning are very seldom observed." Swami Dayanand

Albert Einstein agrees - "We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws." Scholars of theology, except the Aryas, have no understanding at all and for those of science, it is dim.

"what our observations tell us."
Vj ~ If your science is lame what makes you think your observations are any better?

"Science without religion is lame........." Albert Einstein