The power of perfect reasoning is essential to know.

The one true religion

A discriminating intellect is that in which knowledge based only on words, real knowledge and ordinary knowledge based on sense perception or reasoning are present in a mixed state and the mind alternates between them.

"When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted." Vridha Chan. 16:17.
Topic of discussion
Five Tests of true religion - Feb 08, 2002
  1. It (revelation) must exist in its entirety from the very beginning of creation for all of mankind, and not over a long period of time after.
    Oppose - It is unjust of Yahwe, Allah and Christ, to deprive millions born before the revelation of the Ten Commandments, the Q'uran, and the New Testament of His 'divine wisdom'. An injustice which cannot be the work of a Just, Compassionate and Merciful God.
  2. It must conform with (immutable) Natural laws
  3. Oppose - The cause of the physical body is the reproductive element - any other method as man was created from dust or blood-clot and all other miracles of God and Prophets are a breach to this law.
  4. It must be in harmony with reasoning.
    Oppose - Incest which results in mental and physical infirmities, is an immoral action and it had to be the same also in the beginning (creation of one man and one woman).
  5. It must be in harmony with science.
    Oppose - Modern science has proven creation to be more than 6,000 years old, the earth is spherical and it rotates and revolves, contradictions to the Torah, Bible and Q'uran.
  6. Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences :-
  • Direct Cognition - Not all that is known by perception can be true.
  • Inferences - God is eternal therefore we can infer that there were past creations and as well as there will be future ones.
  • Testimony - The testimonies of Rishis, sages and seers of the Vedas (altruistic teachers are all in harmony with each other.
  • History - There are many books (Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayan) and source of other civilization which speak of the past ancient Vedic (Aryas) civilization of 5,000 years ago and earlier.

Let's be reasonable when it comes the most abstruse science of God (wisdom), the ignorant (by repenting) and the wise (by austerity) can never reap the same rewards.

WARNING! Reader's discretion is advised - the truth offends!
Past dialogues debunking Religion
Other discussion boards:-  Can a fool, fool God?    Do all paths lead to God?   Debunking evolution
The one true religion
"No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth." Plato
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The question no Christian can answer.

The question I always asked and never got an answer.
What was this god doing before this creation and where was before he created heaven? Can these so-called scholars give me an answer? Not any answer, a sensible one.

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." Thomas Jefferson - vjsingh.info

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

"These accounts are to be settled only with him who made us; and to him we leave it, with charity for all others, of whom also he is the only rightful and competent judge. I have little doubt that the whole of our country will soon be rallied to the Unity of the Creator, and, I hope, to the pure doctrines of Jesus also."
Thomas Jefferson to Timothy Pickering, 1821 February 27

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

It can only make sense if you can reason!
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

Knowledge is good. Understanding is even better. But wisdom is by far the best. Wisdom recognizes the limits of one's knowledge and understanding. Keep in mind how God reminded Job when he didn't understand something. God asked, “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone — while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?"

One's inability to know or understand God does not negate God. It reinforces our human limits.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

Job was a dunce, I'm not! Can you tell me what your god was doing before this creation.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

Of course not. We are not told and it's beyond our scope, at least for now. It joins a long list of questions that science and reason cannot answer, and scripture does not reveal.

As for Job, since you believe your intellect to be that much greater, perhaps you can answer the questions that he could not. Where was Vijai when the universe began?

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

Even more ridiculous, it is beyond your god's scope. Isn't he supposed to be omniscient?

Perhaps it's not too late for you, it is revealed in the Vedic Scripture.

Where was Vijai when the universe began?
Vj ~ When the universe began I was an unconscious soul (eternal) floating in the atmosphere awaiting rebirth based on my actions virtuous or sinful in my last birth.

Where were you when the universe began?

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

I have no memories earlier than about 5 or 6 years old. Certainly not floating in outer space or anything like that.

I believe you misunderstood a previous statement. I did not say anything was beyond God's scope. I said it's beyond humans' scope. Mankind certainly is not omniscient. That includes you, like it or not.

Christians need not be troubled by unanswered questions, though it is always acceptable to ask. We can rest in the mystery because we know the One who knows all. It is faith on our part because, like a first time hiker following a sherpa up Mt. Everest, we trust in the one who knows the way, and that way, truth, and life is Jesus Christ.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

It is not "memories" but wisdom that enlightens one to know of the eternal journey of the soul.

All I have to understand is your God is false (who doesn't know what he was doing before this creation).
"The sin of worshipping a false God is equal to the commission of a thousand crimes." Swami Dayanand.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

He knows. You don't.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

This is stupidity to the highest. If he knows then tell me what was he doing before now. Maybe I "don't" but you've got to admit that my question is a very sensible one, which even your God doesn't have an answer.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

No, I don't have to cave to your arrogance. God knows way, way more than you. It's that simple. You will never equal God or supersede his knowledge. Even so, he invites you to know him and live in his presence. But you must invite him in. He won't force himself on you. The choice is yours.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

Wisdom is "arrogance" to a fool who keeps saying God "knows way, way more than" me. Right now, I'm superior in knowledge. I know the earth is spherical, the sun is stationary and snakes and donkeys can't talk.

How can I accept his invitation to know him when he fails to tell me what he was doing before this creation?

I do know him, he is a dunce and I don't want to be an idiot as those who worship him.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

Your position is clear. We will not have agreement, but I do value your clarity.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

How can my position be clear to one who is totally ignorant of what his God was doing before this creation?

Of course you're right about agreement, but to value my clarity still leaves you a fool who worship a God who doesn't have answers to intelligent questions.

"It is only by the exercise of reasoning, that man can discover God." Thomas Paine

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

You may lack the ability to comprehend it, but your position is very clear. Paul, the writer of numerous letters in the Bible, wrote about your attitude and ideas 2000 years ago. It's plain to see.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

Really! Did Paul mention in any of his letters of what his god was doing before this creation?As a matter of fact, how intelligent could he be to question my attitude, when the Bible says the earth is flat, sun was moving and snakes and donkeys talked?

"Now if I see a snake I'll back off, once it starts talking I'll crap my self." Dave Allen

‘He who believes and is baptized will be saved but he who does not believe shall be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe in my name. They shall cast out devils, they shall speak in tongues, they will handle snakes and if they drink poison it will not hurt them and they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover’. Gospel of Mark 16: 16, 17 and 18

‘In that passage Jesus says that if you have real faith you will be able to drink poison and not die’.

Have you tried it?

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

No, it does not. Use your powers of reason to read it in context. Otherwise, you are on the same level as hillbillies passing snakes around a country church.

Re: The question no Christian can answer.

It is my power of reason that question your god's omniscient attribute and so far I'm way ahead, there is no answer to what he was doing before this creation.
My understanding of the Bible is the same as Mark Twain.

"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." Mark Twain