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Re: Re: Re: Something for nothing?

I think that if God exsisted out of time then he would be dead, or as good as dead. If there was no time then nothing would dictate order to movements or actions, there would be nothing seperating actions. That would mean all actions would just happen, they would just exsist. If God created us then he has performed all his actions, we were created out of nothing because God has performed all his actions and therefore ceases in need to exsist and is nothing now. The universe appears out of nowhere and God ceases to exsist.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Something for nothing?

Forgive me if this is a little fragmented.You cannot have SOMETHING from NOTHING,not god or universe, IF (for the sake of my point) god existed what did he come from?
a supergod?
we can only work backwards so far then it all becomes so dense that the mind cannot cut through, and that becomes the only point we can start from.

Maybe im missing the point though.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Something for nothing?

Raymond -

I think you are missing this point:

God is supposed to be SELF-SUFFICIENT i.e. it is part of the religious concept of God that He/She/It doesn't need to be caused by anything.

Most orthodox scientists/materialists cannot offer an equivalent - that is they can;t work back to a self-sufficient original cause because that would put them fair and square in God territory. They have to avoid the question, simply by asserting either that the cosmos originated out of nothing (how?) or that in some other way the causal circle can be completed (e.g. ideas of an infinite causal chain, possibly in a repeating cycle).

Now, you may fairly object to the God concept but I think you have to admit it is not the same as the scientist's "original" cause which itseld must be caused.

DF