there are three possibilities as i see it.
1) we were created from nothing
2) we do not really exist
3) we have always existed
one: logically, something cannot come from nothing. i am using the term logically very loosely, and i hope it gets across that way.
two: this is for people who think they're philosophical. i don't know who said "i think therefore i am" but i agree.
three: this is the one i'm going to go with.
why did we have to be created? why did information have to start? i believe in evolution. evolution is a process like fractals, it just keeps getting more complicated and advanced the more it iterates.
haven't talked in a while. and i'm eating cocoa krispies!
Cocoa Krispies were invented in 1958 by the Kellogg company. They have not always existed.
Biological evolution as initially described by Darwin, also appears to have a beginning as it operates on biological life which has not always existed on this planet.
I agree with Heden, I really don't like #1 or #2, but #3 has it's drawbacks as well. I don't see a single natural precedent for any of the choices.
I think you need to define "we" (do you mean human beings or "everything" - if humans then do you mena that we have always existed with our physical bodies intact?)
I think you need to define "have always". Do you mean for the whole run of time - or do you think that there is something beyond time?
I think you need to define what you mean by "existed". do you mean existed in the space-time continuum we understand or do you mean existed in some more fundamental sense?
I think that if God exsisted out of time then he would be dead, or as good as dead. If there was no time then nothing would dictate order to movements or actions, there would be nothing seperating actions. That would mean all actions would just happen, they would just exsist. If God created us then he has performed all his actions, we were created out of nothing because God has performed all his actions and therefore ceases in need to exsist and is nothing now. The universe appears out of nowhere and God ceases to exsist.
Forgive me if this is a little fragmented.You cannot have SOMETHING from NOTHING,not god or universe, IF (for the sake of my point) god existed what did he come from?
a supergod?
we can only work backwards so far then it all becomes so dense that the mind cannot cut through, and that becomes the only point we can start from.
God is supposed to be SELF-SUFFICIENT i.e. it is part of the religious concept of God that He/She/It doesn't need to be caused by anything.
Most orthodox scientists/materialists cannot offer an equivalent - that is they can;t work back to a self-sufficient original cause because that would put them fair and square in God territory. They have to avoid the question, simply by asserting either that the cosmos originated out of nothing (how?) or that in some other way the causal circle can be completed (e.g. ideas of an infinite causal chain, possibly in a repeating cycle).
Now, you may fairly object to the God concept but I think you have to admit it is not the same as the scientist's "original" cause which itseld must be caused.
