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The power of perfect reasoning is essential to know.


The one true religion

A discriminating intellect is that in which knowledge based only on words, real knowledge and ordinary knowledge based on sense perception or reasoning are present in a mixed state and the mind alternates between them.

"When the time of destruction is at hand the intellect becomes perverted." Vridha Chan. 16:17.
Topic of discussion
Five Tests of true religion - Feb 08, 2002
  1. It (revelation) must exist in its entirety from the very beginning of creation for all of mankind, and not over a long period of time after.
    Oppose - It is unjust of Yahwe, Allah and Christ, to deprive millions born before the revelation of the Ten Commandments, the Q'uran, and the New Testament of His 'divine wisdom'. An injustice which cannot be the work of a Just, Compassionate and Merciful God.
  2. It must conform with (immutable) Natural laws
  3. Oppose - The cause of the physical body is the reproductive element - any other method as man was created from dust or blood-clot and all other miracles of God and Prophets are a breach to this law.
  4. It must be in harmony with reasoning.
    Oppose - Incest which results in mental and physical infirmities, is an immoral action and it had to be the same also in the beginning (creation of one man and one woman).
  5. It must be in harmony with science.
    Oppose - Modern science has proven creation to be more than 6,000 years old, the earth is spherical and it rotates and revolves, contradictions to the Torah, Bible and Q'uran.
  6. Its truth must be confirmed by four evidences :-
  • Direct Cognition - Not all that is known by perception can be true.
  • Inferences - God is eternal therefore we can infer that there were past creations and as well as there will be future ones.
  • Testimony - The testimonies of Rishis, sages and seers of the Vedas (altruistic teachers are all in harmony with each other.
  • History - There are many books (Mahabharata, Valmiki's Ramayan) and source of other civilization which speak of the past ancient Vedic (Aryas) civilization of 5,000 years ago and earlier.

Let's be reasonable when it comes the most abstruse science of God (wisdom), the ignorant (by repenting) and the wise (by austerity) can never reap the same rewards.


WARNING! Reader's discretion is advised - the truth offends!
Past dialogues debunking Religion
Other discussion boards:-  Can a fool, fool God?    Do all paths lead to God?   Debunking evolution
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The one true religion
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Ravi Zacharias Speaks To 40,000

Passion 2016 asks Ravi Zacharias to speak. He starts by sharing that the times of our world are very uncertain. He shares an Exciting talk about the reality of our life and most important things we need to understand.

Re: Ravi Zacharias Speaks To 40,000

Fools are in greater number so speaking to 40,000 doesn't mean you're smart.
We must not confuse education with intelligence. You can be an academic and still be an idiot.

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." Thomas Jefferson

Re: Ravi Zacharias Speaks To 40,000

You're right, millions of people have died because of Christianity. But they died because of Christianity, not because of Christ. Christianity can be twisted Christ cannot. Christ isn't asking you to follow Christianity. He simply loves you, and he longs for nothing more than to have you love him back.

Hypocrites and fools

You really need to have your head examined and I really don't know of anyone who is capable of doing it, as there is no cure for a fool.

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." Thomas Jefferson


Nowhere to run, anything to do with Christ means you're either a hypocrite a fool.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

Yeah you're right. I probably am a hypocrite and a fool. I guess we all have faults. Maybe one-day I can be more than that, maybe one-day I will finally realize what it means to be loved, truly loved, in spite of all my faults and mistakes. It's so hard to believe that there is love. But it's there nonetheless.
I hope maybe one-day you will see it.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

See it? I'm experiencing it every day of my life my friend. But how would you, being a "hypocrite and a fool" ever come to know that.

Maimonides: the exceptional mind

I am convinced that Maimonides' is correct. Maimonides was the greatest thinker ever produced.

The 14th-century Christian philosopher, Solomon ben Simeon Duran said this about Maimonides, writing that: "all the authors who came after him and the commentators who followed in his steps, Muslim and Christian alike, recognize the splendid glory of his majesty and crave his teaching.” Many rabbis such as Menachem ha-Me’iri, Joseph ibn Caspi and Ritva, called him “a banner to the nations” and “a witness to the entire world.” Even the mystic Kabbalist, Nachmanides wrote, “In the entire French and Spanish diaspora, none has arisen like him.” Indeed many have called him the “the great eagle.” Rabbinic commentator Menahem ha-Me’iri said, “before him, there was none such … and after him there will be none such.” Maimonides’ disciple Joseph ibn Caspi wrote to his son, “our teacher Moses [Maimonides], a father in Torah and a father in wisdom, is in our opinion greater than Moses [Moshe].” He later wrote that “since G-d’s Torah, nothing has been written like it [the Guide].” He called him, “the light of the world.” Rabbi Judah Alharizi called him, “an angel of G-d.” Not long after his death, the adage was recited, “from Moses to Moses there has been no one like Moses.”

But in Maimonides' day, it was dangerous to ask questions. Rome’s acceptance of Christianity began the subsequent decline (a period of widespread ignorance) known in Europe as the Dark Ages. The Church condemned and even burned Jews and Christians for reading the Bible and asking deep questions. Later they were burning others for less. But what followed was the Renaissance and the enlightenment – a revival of the past. The glories of Rome and Athens. For example, the heliocentric theory was correctly proposed by the Greek philosopher, Aristarchus of Samos and later Hypatia of Alexandria, that the earth is not the center of the universe and that the earth, and not the sun, circles the latter. Thus, many historians and scholars alike speculate that had the Christians not torched the Libary of Alexandria the Greek invention of steam would have driven us to prosperity, possibly reaching to the stars by the late 1400s'. It is a sad testament that we were reduced by Christianity to ignorance but in due course, we would return to the achievements of the past.

In modern times the Church is tossed aside, the rise of science has replaced the ignorance and superstitions, and religious tolerance blooms. Maimonides lived during the Dark Ages - yet he had modern ideas. To ask questions and study science: natural law, G-d's laws. They are imperative to live a more satisfying life. Maimonides was ahead of his time.

Throughout the history of the world, few people have really made a difference. They were identified as geniuses because they raised the daring questions and others have stepped in to fill the gaps, to answer those questions. Persons such as Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Aristotle, and many others. Thus, we are standing on the backs of giants. Without these men, we would not live in the luxury we find ourselves living today. We have running water, electricity, steam, etc. For the first time in history, we have information at the tips of our fingers. You could view Paris from New York on a television screen.

These people were geniuses because they asked the questions and found answers. But it is very rare to find a single individual with both of these attributes. Maimonides was such a man.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

Tell me Vijai. If there is no cure for a fool, how come you got to be so smart? Or were you just born the wisest person on the planet?

Re: Hypocrites and fools

Excellent question shooter! No one is born wise! Wisdom is acquired by self-study and practice of the correct knowledge. And since I'm now smarter or wise it simply means I was never a fool, to begin with.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

So there is a cure for foolishness? Make up your mind...
Now, since you are so wise. Tell me how to differentiate between "correct" and incorrect knowledge.
Fools are always proud and "cocksure", but the wise, they are wise because they doubt.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

If a fool doesn't know he is a fool, how can he tell who is wise? The reason you're a fool is that you can't "differentiate between correct and incorrect knowledge. However, if you're prepared to ingrain good reasoning habits it could be a sign you're not a fool.

Maharishi Swami Dayanand Saraswati: the exceptional mind

I am convinced that Maimonides' is correct.
Vj ~ All followers of other dogmas are also convinced of someone in their faith who are correct.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell

Maimonides was the greatest thinker ever produced.
Vj ~ These are the words of the greatest thinker:
"But there is another prejudice which is cherished by many scholars evidently under the impression of its being a well-recognized scientific doctrine. It is that in the ruder stages of civilization, when the laws of nature are little known and but little understood, when mankind has not enough of the experience of the world, strict methods of correct reasoning are very seldom observed." Swami Dayanand

Persons such as Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Aristotle, and many others. Thus, we are standing on the backs of giants. Without these men, we would not live in the luxury we find ourselves living today.
Vj ~ "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein

"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace; human speech, the mother of history, grandmother of legend, and great grandmother of tradition. Our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only." Mark Twain.

One of the originators of the Physical Evolution Theory, Dr. A. R. Wallace was the first to strike down the Social Evolution Theory. He rightly affirmed that: "The Veda admittedly the oldest book in the library of mankind contains the essential teachings of the most advanced religious thinkers and is a vast system of religious teachings which are pure and lofty.”

Re: Hypocrites and fools

Ok, so what makes you think that I am not conforming to "natural laws and science"?

Re: Hypocrites and fools

Reasoning comes before both if you must understand the Bible to be unscientific (flat earth, the sun is moving and both are 6000 years old) and miracles are a breach to natural laws.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

First of all, I would like to thank you for this conversation. You are very smart and I have learned quite a lot. However, I feel there is one thing you are forgetting. That thing is love. Science can't explain it, natural laws can't bind it and you cannot reason with it.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

Virtue practiced in ignorance is still ignorance! It simply means, love practiced in ignorance isn't loved. The first act of love is freeing oneself from ignorance by seeking out the correct knowledge and putting it into practice.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

You are trying to love with your mind. Love cannot have conditions, if it does, it is not love. You will never see love clearly until you put your head away and start using your heart.

I am not going to keep arguing with you I was a fool to begin arguing. Nothing good ever comes out of an argument on social media. So I will end with this.

Wisdom and knowledge are finite. They cannot give you purpose. No matter how wise or knowledgeable you are, you will never find what you are looking for until you start looking towards things that will last.

Re: Hypocrites and fools

Wisdom and knowledge are finite.
Vj ~ Your soul and heaven are also finite (created), so how would it be possible for you to enjoy everlasting or never-ending heaven?