Accidentally wiped out the whole forum!
No lost anyways as there are no cure for fools.

"If there should be a conference among the most imaginative minds they will agree that almost all institution of learning are only nurseries of prejudice, corruption, barbarism and pedantry." Anonymous


And as for science of evolution it is a total failure as it breaches the laws of nature.
Progression is always downward, a law!


One of the originators of the Physical Evolution Theory, Dr. A. R. Wallace was the first to strike down the Social Evolution Theory. He rightly affirmed that: "The Veda admittedly the oldest book in the library of mankind contains the essential teachings of the most advanced religious thinkers and is a vast system of religious teachings which are pure and lofty.”
He further wrote in “Social Environment and Moral Progress,” strongly refuting the social and moral evolution theory:
“In the earliest records which have come down to us from the past, we find ample indications that accepted standard of morality and the conduct resulting from these were in no degree inferior to those which prevail today, though in some respects, they were different from ours. The wonderful collection of hymns known as the Vedas are a vast system of religious teachings as pure and lofty as those of the finest portions of the Hebrew Scriptures. Its authors were fully our equals in their conception of the universe and the Deity expressed in the finest poetic language.”
“In it (Veda) we find many of the essential teachings of the most advance religious thinkers.” “We must admit that the mind which conceived and expressed in appropriate language, such ideas as are everywhere present in those Vedic hymns, could not have been inferior to those of the best of our religious teachers and poets to our Milton, Shakespeare and Tennyson.”

Ha! Your god punished you for your foolishness! That's why you stupidly deleted everything - but god did worse at the great flood, he wiped out everything! Ha! Ha! What a pathetic joke! You likely did that because you saw my superior argument! Anyway, I'll rebuttal your claims on Social Darwinism later. This is what I have to say now, in response to your last article, which you purposefully denied the world access to, so they will just have to take my word for what you said.

***

VJ, you ask me about which god we're speaking of, I thought it was obvious that we were speaking of your god, but they're all the same, really. They all condone slavery, child abuse, and immoral sexuality, let alone murder, rape, and genocide. I see no difference in any of the world religions, and yours doesn't escape my glance. Yes, VJ, at least I admit I know nothing of your religion (except for the basics, which is self-evident), unlike your arrogance in knowing claiming to know everything.

Then you ask me to give the answers! Haha! You're the bearer, you bring the news of almighty god, therefore, the burden of proof is always on the theist, who purposes something extraordinary, out of the ordinary, exists! Something which we all can't see! Guess who's doing to work, buddy? Extraordinary faith requires extraordinary evidence. Good luck!

So then you tell me we DO only live once, but that the soul moves on. Really? Again, can we have an unambiguous, clear proof of this? If the soul reincarnates itself into another body, then how come, for the first time, we have billions upon billions of people? Where have these billions been all the time until now, eh? And if the soul goes to heaven, again, how can you prove that? I might as well ask you if other spiritual beings exist, such as the Easter Bunny. Go ahead, tell me he exists. You're ****ed in the head, VJ. The possibility that you have the arrogance to tell me what my next life will be will never cease to amuse me.

You know what, VJ, I can't explain how it all happened, but even if I wanted to, and could, I'm sure your brain wouldn't handle it. Evolution, the big Bang, all of it - you misunderstand it completely if you compare it to a scrap metal depot explosion. This is a baseless argument of words, no more. An argument hiding in words, words which look big and might, but have no substance. The thoughts aren't even original, I reward you for your try, though. Secondly, VJ, you've made some unforgivable mistakes. First of all, natural selection, the whole process of it, can't possible be compared to something immaterial, such as a metal scrap depot. Even then, the compounds in that material are - in essence - natural material (I'm looking beyond the surface here, you obviously didn't). So it's short of a contradiction, because those materials are complicated, but you believe them to be uncomplicated and random. If you believe the universe is ordered, is complex, and states a Designer at work, than great job - you've just given our universe two incompatible qualities! You'd never pass a dummy's biology test! Even if your god created everything, who created him? Good luck chocking on that one, is this checkmate? We're all sick to death of Occam's razor; just admit already that your house of cards has just been toppled. At least a ******* scrap depot was created out of raw material, but here, you say, comes your god, creating **** out of ex nihilo. How do you explain that one? In short, VJ, you can't compare an eye to a piece of thrown out trash. I'd rather trust the blind forces of physics than your all-seeing, all-knowing god who constantly gets in the way of things every once in a trillion years to **** up creation. So much for this god's great foresight and planning! I could just as easily assert that since leaves are complex with awesome cellulose structures, and since they grow on trees, so do money, which are also complex in one form or another, and you'd have to agree with me! Money suddenly grows on trees! what a genius I am! Oh, I'm so smart! What an idiot. Such baseless idioms. Your idiocy proceeds you, VJ. You win the Darwin Award for complete moron of the year.

You then move on to charity (not sure what this does for your argument?) Then, you say, that in philosophy, no "sensible person" would ever think of himself - usually - as all there is in the "vast universe."

VJ, I can tell you've never studied a word of real philosophy, let alone how to make children. You're that stupid? Wow. So all these people were not sensible enough? Really? Take a look:

Jeremy Bentham
Auguste Comte
Ludwig Andreas Feuerbach
Friedrich Nietzsche
John Stuart Mill
Karl Marx
Lucretius
David Hume
Peter Lipton
Thomas Nagel
Willard Van Orman Quine
Bertrand Russell
And especially Arthur Schopenhauer

So to you, they must have been dummies. I'm sorry to break it to you, VJ, but they've be remembered long after death, while you can stay up there in fairy world with your almighty dictator.

Then you claim that Twain thought India to be the "cradle of civilization," um... last I checked, they thought it was Mesopotamia, but never mind, we should all be racist, and believe - without evidence - that it was India which did all there is for Western civilization, and lave out the Africans, the Chinese, the people of Mesoamerica. You think that only India deserves the credit for "civilization"? Vj, if you perhaps took the time - as I - to read Twain's comment in context, you'd come away with quite a different understating of it than your cherry-picked assumption. Twain was issuing a journal called "Following the Equator," from a tour he did around the world, in 1897. The quote you stole from, is not from Twain's own mouth, but from a Christian missionary to India, in which he describes his troubles in converting the native populace. In fact, your Indian friends quoted to the missionary that man's place in the universe is weak, that he has to "hang on" to the gods, so-to-speak. You insult our capabilities, VJ. It is your god, not atheism, which purposes that man has no hope without such tyranny, that we have to be dependent upon god at all times, and if we not, we'd burst into flames. What dictatorship. Your god has made you into a slave.

But you're such a ******* idiot, you'd never get that, would you? And to quote something out of context, is the greatest historical crime. You have no credentials to state lies, let alone facts. May I ask you something: in what University did you attend? Who gave you the right to take things out of context? What a ******* mess this all really is.

So who's really one step ahead, eh?

You then claim you've took 20 long, grinding years to study the world faiths, well then, you wouldn't make so much errors - simple errors, like a child - as you do. For example, you mock Christianity, and claim that miracles don't occur - that's great and all, but talk to a Christian apologist first, and don't be so biased next time. You haven't studied ****; and quoting Einstein when it comes to philosophy and reason won't help your case, either - we all know he was a hater of this poison called "religion."

Yes, Einstein might have used god as a metaphor, but that's where it ends. At best, he could have been agnostic, still, that is far from your views of a caring, loving god who gives a **** who I sleep with, or what I eat, or what I do with my time. What nonsense children we all are, to believe in such foolishness. To think that a loving, emotional god, watches our every step, and not just you and me, but all of us, is very, very foolish indeed. Now, I have a few challenges to issue, impossible ones, as they surely will be to you:

1.) So you say you do have the monopoly on truth, right? Yes, let's bet on it. If you have divine power, as you say, kill me with your thunder bolt. I give you permission to do it. Ask your god, do your rituals, whatever it takes... just kill me. Then I'll believe your hogwash when I face your god after death, when judged, and, with all the pride I can muster, will ask him: why didn't you provide enough evidence in the first place? Why the hell did it take someone to kill me to prove your existence?

And if you refuse to kill me, or can't bring yourself to do it, you've got no power, and neither does any god of yours. Good luck, I'm looking forward to your miraculous "proof," we atheists have been waiting for centuries now, it's about time you guys took the foot out of your mouth.

2.) Note too now that if your god can't bring himself to do evil, because he's all-just and must prevent it, recall now the atrocities he admitted with a blind eye and a turned head. Think of all the eons of suffering, disease, torture and death. Think of the world wars; now you get the picture, don't you. God allows evil, unconditionally, because he's not all-powerful enough to stop it, even if he wished to. He's not omnipotent, but malevolent. And if he can't stop evil, then why on earth do you look up to him with reverence and call him your master, your god? Pathetic.

3) Now, we all know that as an atheist, there's not one bad thing that I can't do, which a theist, like you, is willing to, if tempted. All humans are mortal, all commit crime. You, I, everyone, we're all in reach of the same evils, we're human. Its our nature to be defensive. However, I challenge you to state me one thing - not three - just one, one good thing, which a theist like you can do, which, I, an atheist, can't. Now reverse the order and you've already thought up a theist who's done more evil in the name of some magical friend of his. Don't cite me Hitler, he was a pagan, a "believer," as you call yourselves. Nor should you cite me the forces of Imperial Japan during the Second World War; they thought their emperor to be a god on earth, incarnated; nor can you cite to me Stalin or Mao, for they too, asked their congregates to worship them as IF they were god. No, you must find an atheist, a real atheist. Not a dictator with all power, that's not an atheist. That's god. So I think its time, VJ, for you to get real and suck it up, you're faith is a lie. Deal with it or go home.

Just one last thing, VJ, before I close my case. This is a challenge with an answer: my answer. Can your god do anything? I mean, like anything? If so, can he be stupid - I'm serious, if your god's got all the power, all the might, all the legions of the archangels behind him, can he seriously be stupid? I think that's all he ever was, because he was invented by primates, who were, to put it mildly, stupid.

Thank you for your time. I await your response.

P.S., god didn't delete ****, as he doesn't exist, you just f'd up, that's all. Good work, VJ!

And you're right, there are no cures for fools like you.

And you're right, there are no cures for fools like you.
Vj ~ Dear Camel, as long as you have that hump on your back you're only good for riding.
A person with the desire of searching for the truth, would write a paragraph or two and not a whole book! It shows you're close-minded and not open to anything sensible.

Only the wise know who is wise and who is a fool and I know you're not wise! And neither you nor I will change.
"Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change." Confucius

Again, it is the world's lost and not the wise.

I will reply to the above but at my own speed.

Yes, VJ, at least I admit I know nothing of your religion
Vj ~ You're slowly proving yourself an idiot when you said earlier "but they're all the same, really." How can anything I say make any sense to you when you know nothing of my religion?

unlike your arrogance in knowing claiming to know everything.
Vj ~ I were in this foolish state once, but then I said to myself I'm much smarter than that, so I went out in search for the truth rather than spending my whole life displaying my stupidity before the world by saying I don't "know everything".
Tell me Camel, if I do "know everything", how would you know if I do or not?

Again, can we have an unambiguous, clear proof of this?
Vj ~ I do, it is called wisdom and there is no shortcut to it. You would have to undertake the same journey of study (research) as I did. I'm only here to show you the way.

then how come, for the first time, we have billions upon billions of people?
Vj ~ It is not first time, meaning it is not the first creation. The idea of creation and dissolution is an ongoing (eternal) process. Besides our present universe, comprising of trillions and trillions of solar systems as ours is never ending (infinite). Learning anything yet?

You know what, VJ, I can't explain how it all happened,
Vj ~ And stupidity has taken over and you're ok with that!

you compare it to a scrap metal depot explosion. This is a baseless argument of words
Vj ~ It is baseless to an idiot alright! As stupid as you're, can you not see the earth rotating and revolving around the sun (design) in unison with the concept of time, not missing a day or a year?

Even if your god created everything, who created him?
Vj ~ There is word in the dictionary which atheists have no use for - "eternal". That is your answer!

You win the Darwin Award for complete moron of the year.
Vj ~ Shouldn't that go to the chimp, who suddenly decide to abandon his stupor state and instead evolved into the first human?

You then move on to charity (not sure what this does for your argument?)
Vj ~ Charity begins at home, get it! Know yourself first before anything else and then like me, you have a chance of "knowing everything".
Regards,

o all these people were not sensible enough?
Vj ~ You tell me! "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell.
They, like you, seem to be "cocksure", but if they're not, there is still a problem.

Take a look:
Vj ~ I see Einstein didn't make your list.
Be ready to instantly reject any ideology you hold and see yourself as a child, inquisitive, honest and innocent, free of prejudice and bigotry, in pursuit of this truth as Albert Einstein rightly explains it:
"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvellously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."

You think that only India deserves the credit for "civilization"?
Vj ~ Your quarrel is with Twain and Einstein.
"We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein

But you're such a ******* idiot,
Vj ~ "Yes, VJ, at least I admit I know nothing of your religion" and "You know what, VJ, I can't explain how it all happened".
Are you sure I'm the ******* idiot here?

May I ask you something: in what University did you attend?
Vj ~ I'm not an academic, but it is not my fault. I couldn't find a university that gives a degree for wisdom.

And if you did attend one, this is what I think of it:
"If there should be a conference among the most imaginative minds they will agree that almost all institution of learning are only nurseries of prejudice, corruption, barbarism and pedantry." Anonymous

you mock Christianity,
Vj ~ I mocked them all and an added bonus for you, the science of evolution.

Yes, Einstein might have used god as a metaphor, but that's where it ends.
Vj ~ Not for the wise! "Philosophy and reason will remain the most beautiful sanctuary they have always been for the select few." Albert Einstein

1.) So you say you do have the monopoly on truth, right?
Vj ~ I said if I do, how would you know if I do or not?

If you have divine power, as you say, kill me with your thunder bolt.
Vj ~ Divine power is about enlightening mankind (freedom) not destroying them (incaceration).

And if he can't stop evil, then why on earth do you look up to him with reverence
Vj ~ He didn't create it (inherent in eternal matter), so why must he stop it? And since he can't stop evil, He sent us instructions in which you're free to accept or reject. Evil has its purpose, also, without which there will be no, crime, pain and suffering, etc. Many in law enforcement, medicine, etc. would be jobless and most important there will be no animals for atheists and the credulous, etc. to stuff.

I challenge you to state me one thing - not three - just one, one good thing, which a theist like you can do, which, I, an atheist, can't.
Vj ~ My reasoning is guided by the correct knowledge, yours isn't. You can't be a mechanic by studying a book on anatomy. Similarly, you can't acquire wisdom without a legitimate source knowledge.

you've already thought up a theist who's done more evil in the name of some magical friend of his
Vj ~ Any religion with a mediator between man an God is evil.
"Slavery and thraldom of the worst kind ever follows in the train of gurudom (prophethood), it utterly enfeebles men morally, intellectually and spiritually." The Last Reformer

you're faith is a lie.
Vj ~ How could it be a lie, when you earlier admitted you know nothing of my faith?

If so, can he be stupid - I'm serious
Vj ~ In your present feeble state of mind, if He is, how would you know He is or not?

P.S., god didn't delete ****, as he doesn't exist, you just f'd up, that's all. Good work, VJ!
Vj ~ No man, your dad "f'c up" and his dad before that, they taught you shi-t!

In reply to all the above...

Wrong, a person interested in truth would write more than you, because they'd analyse everything, and that takes time. You yourself have written a lot, so why now contradict yourself? I think I'm a victim to truth, that's why I'm so narrow-minded. And yes, all religions teach the same thing: believe in me and escape death, don't, and... oh well, too bad! Your religion isn't any different, its rather the nuances I don't know much of. You, on the other side of the coin, don't even know 4th grade science! I utterly tore your pants down when it came to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, you have good reason to be ashamed!

If you're much smarter than me, you'd be an atheist. Polls show that atheists are much smarter by a minimum of fewer points than people of faith, so good luck thinking you're any smarter.

And how do I know you're wrong about religion when I say I "don't know everything?" Well, that's easy. Religion's just stupid. So at least I know that; but in context, I meant I don't know what happened before the Big Bang, or what happens to death - you display arrogance, its hardly amusing. You see, creation isn't eternal (lest there were other Big Bangs). You should really study our origins first, before ranting on about what your holy book says. You see, the Law of Conservation doesn't apply to the origins of the universe, and that's why this law doesn't violate the Big Bang theory - because the law holds for every moment in the universe, but not its beginning. Yes, the earth does rotate around the sun, we're just lucky for it, there's probably hundreds of universes like ours, and trillions which aren't. No god created it. Yes, we atheists have use for words such as "eternal," but the one left out of your dictionary, which you should look up by the way, is "fantasy"! Plus, you can't quote from Bertrand Russell, he's on my lists of atheists, and you don't agree with him, so was he so "cocksure" he was smart when he really wasn't? Again, who the hell are you to rundown Mr. Russell? And you should be a little honest sometimes with yourself when quoting men like Einstein in context. He said: "Thus I came... to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true.... Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience... an attitude which has never left me."

Later: "I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it." Another time, he said: "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own - a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in Nature."

In a letter from July 2, 1945, Einstein remarked in response to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had converted him. ''...From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest, I am of course and have always been an atheist.''

From a letter dated September 8, 1949, he said: ''I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a child like one."

''I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.''

From 1954: ''...I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious, then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.''

So there you have it, VJ, Eisenstein wouldn't have followed your loving god of the Vedas. Perhaps Einstein did feel we owe a lot to "the Indians," and I'd be the first to agree with him, but to call the rest of humanity "savages," as your one quote said, is pure bigotry.

P.S., you can call our universities here in America horse****, but you'll never make much of yourself. Notice how the quote came from an anonymous source, probably from some local hate site.

I think I'm a victim to truth, that's why I'm so narrow-minded.
Vj ~ You're a victim of stupidity and here is why?
"If there should be a conference among the most imaginative minds they will agree that almost all institution of learning are only nurseries of prejudice, corruption, barbarism and pedantry." Anonymous

Your religion isn't any different
Vj ~ It is different! It is in harmony with reasoning, science and in conformity with the laws of nature.

If you're much smarter than me, you'd be an atheist.
Vj ~ I was an atheist, I just got tired of being "smarter" so I strove instead to be the smartest, i.e smarter than an atheist, knowing how, where, why and when it all began.

Religion's just stupid.
Vj ~ I agree, except for one! "Science without religion (the one) is a lame....Albert Einstien.

you display arrogance
Vj ~ You know nothing of my philosophy and how it all began, and you're still determined to stay that way. Isn't it a display of arrogance also?

Yes, we atheists have use for words such as "eternal,"
Vj ~ If you don't use it, how would I know you have use for it, dumb-ass?

"fantasy"!
Vj ~ Yes, I have use for "fantasy" - an ape slowly evolving into a human.

Again, who the hell are you to rundown Mr. Russell?
Vj ~ I just quoted him and if he is being "rundown", it is his own doing, not mine?

He said: "Thus I came... to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12.... an attitude which has never left me."
Vj ~ The same with me, but it was at the age of 15, but it left me 20 years after. As I said before, I wanted to know how, why, where and when it all began. This is what a really smart person would do.

So there you have it, VJ, Eisenstein wouldn't have followed your loving god of the Vedas.
Vj ~ He did!
"We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
AYUR VEDA - studies the anatomy, physiology, hygiene, sanitary science, surgery, etc.
DHANUR VEDA - teaches archery and other Military Science for self-defence from within and outside.
GHANDARVA VEDA - teaches the science and art of music
STHAPATYA VEDA- teaches engineering, architecture and all branches of mathematics in general.

but to call the rest of humanity "savages," as your one quote said, is pure bigotry.
Vj ~ It is the truth! We are emerging out of a primitive state and it is not because the science of evolution says so, but because of ignorance. Progression is always downwards, a law.

but you'll never make much of yourself.
Vj ~ Again! It is not you, who don't know my philosophy or how it all began, can determine what I "make" of myself.

Plus, you can't quote from Bertrand Russell, he's on my lists of atheists. Again, who the hell are you to rundown Mr. Russell?
Vj ~ I'm simply asking you which one are you, "stupid" or "intelligent"? Either way you still have a problem. It is the reason I moved on from atheism.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell

And you should be a little honest sometimes with yourself when quoting men like Einstein in context.
Vj ~ I'm honest, it was because of Einstein I moved on, when he said, science without religion is lame.......

Be reminded, when one intelligent "is shown the way to removing all doubts, and one continue to ignore it, one is back to stupidity or cocksure.

Your same old quotes get ******* irritating! If your religion was in harmony with natural law, you wouldn't call evolution mere "fantasy." You want real "fantasy", VJ? Gods creating ****.

So Einstein believed in your gods? Give me a break! God was a metaphor for the intricacy of the universe! Get a book on the man, if you know how to read.

Again, I can't expect a dummy who thinks education is a conspiracy, to understand the Second Law of Thermodynamics. I can only explain it to a moron once, a student, perhaps twice. Evolution DOES NOT contradict the Second Law of Thermodynamics, f'ktard! Progression is always down in a CLOSED SYSTEM, which this world, ISN'T! What f'n world are you living in, VJ, one without critical analysis?

P.S., you know something VJ, you're "cocksure" your idiot god exists, so maybe let's reverse Mr. Russell's quote, now who's the stupid one, eh?

Your same old quotes get ******* irritating!
Vj ~ That is exactly what something sensible will constantly to do to an idi-ot.

You want real "fantasy", VJ?
Vj ~ I've already got real fantasy - science of evolution! What I would like to know from you, is the application of the word "eternal" in your scientific realm of thinking.

Get a book on the man, if you know how to read.
Vj ~ This is what you get from reading, in the absence of good reasoning.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell

Evolution DOES NOT contradict the Second Law of Thermodynamics, f'ktard!
Vj ~ All this "f'ktard" has to know is that you're either "stupid" or "intelligent" as Bertrand Russel puts it. Evolution breaches natural laws! The same goes for the resurrection of the dead, virgin birth and splitting of the moon or the Dead Sea, which have nothing to do with your man-made "Second Law of Thermodynamics".

P.S., you know something VJ, you're "cocksure" your idiot god exists, so maybe let's reverse Mr. Russell's quote, now who's the stupid one, eh?
Vj ~ You can do whatever you want with Mr. Russel quote, but as it stands right now, either way, you're the irritated one with a very serious problem.

VJ admits that "science" is mere fantasy. Nice going. If you think this way, we're through. I have no further means of communicating with you.

Let's apply "eternal" in a rational way. "Eternal," as in, you're eternally dead. Told ya we had a use for it!

And you're still "cocksure" you're right? Idiot.

One last thing, birdbrain. Please don't compare the resurrection - which is just more fantasy where a guy rises from the dead - with the Second Law of Thermodynamics! The law is applicable, we can experience it's effects, we can't experience Jesus.

I get that you're upset that I made an utter fool of you when it comes the that law. We get it. No use hollering it out to the world, pal. One last thing: don't call it man-made, dimwit. You want to know what's "man-made," your stupid holy book which claims to know ALL the answers to man's troubles.

Ya right. You've got to seriously jerk off more if you want to make any of that sound reasonably believable.

And I am irritated. Why wouldn't, when dealing with a fool who mocks scientific discovery, who'd rather believe in Harry Potter? Fu'ing potty mouth, here!

holy book which claims to know ALL the answers
Vj ~ Again, if it does claim to have all the answers, how would you know if it is or not?

And I am irritated. Why wouldn't, when dealing with a fool
Vj ~ I, on the other hand, am thankful! The wise can draw wisdom from ignorance.

From the Holy Trinity Lavra, monastery of the Russian Orthodox Church, coming live from Moscow…

The fearful experience of Christian history teaches us that the way of persecution does not work. It would be better for them to not even have a way. But various Roman emperors: emperors’ Neron, “Great” Trajan, Diocletian… And other powerful emperors of the Roman Empire learned that: …all the organization of that mighty Empire, it’s laws, culture, army, the discipline, systems, transport infrastructure, and rule over the Mediterranean Sea. All that was not enough to destroy the Christian faith. All of them made grave mistakes.

They were remembered by history as persecutors, as heartless people. But Christian Faith triumphed. The very same mistakes are making persecutors in western Europe in these modern times. By closing down churches and monasteries they think they can have political culture and political philosophy without God. By fighting religion they think they are going to create a blessed society. Trying to unroot christian Faith. They did not learn.

The best example that persecution fails is our Church and our country, Mother Russia. And why? From today’s Liturgy we learn from apostle Paul’s writings. He says… That he is sure. Sure! A word rarely used by the Apostles. He is sure that nor death nor life. Nor angels or forces. Nor present or future. Nor height or depths. Or any other thing! Can separate us from the Love of God. Jesus Christ our Lord!

Amen.

From Putin, Journalism Reporter,

Have a Merry Christmas.

Russian Orthodoxy is the true faith of God.
Vj ~ You have eyes to read and ears to hear, but it is the intellect through reasoning which is the first step towards the one true faith of God.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." Thomas Jefferson

The fearful experience of Christian history teaches us that the way of persecution does not work
Vj ~ This shows there was never anything truthful about Christianity to begin with.

But various Roman emperors: emperors’ Neron, “Great” Trajan, Diocletian… And other powerful emperors of the Roman Empire learned that: …all the organization of that mighty Empire, it’s laws, culture, army, the discipline, systems, transport infrastructure, and rule over the Mediterranean Sea.
Vj ~ Here is the true purpose of religion:
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Roman philosopher Seneca

All that was not enough to destroy the Christian faith
Vj ~ It shows you cannot use ignorance to destroy ignorance.

Trying to unroot christian Faith.
Vj ~ It can't be done!
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." Thomas Jefferson

Or any other thing! Can separate us from the Love of God. Jesus Christ our Lord!
Vj ~ You should learn to study other philosophies that were here long before Christ, only then you're an authority on God's love.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." Thomas Jefferson

Enough said, you can't quote atheists as a means of mocking another person's faith without acknowledging the fact that he'd do the same for yours. What a total hypocrite!

So VJ, just some thoughts running through my mind here:

How do I know your book is bull? Seriously, does it take a 50 year old to explain it? You can believe a book, written when men thought the world was flat, to be divine inspired by god. Go ahead. But its foolish, its utterly foolish. And you can believe these nice little stories explain away the ****ty situation we're in (i.e., why there's death and destruction in the world), but all your faith really does is teach evil, hatred, and deception, and it most certainly doesn't teach how we got here, nor why your god's such a ***** that he'd let disease and war go rampant and not care to stop it for thousands and thousands of years.

But go ahead, tell me I'm blind, impure, whatever. Go ahead and say that the reason why I fail to be religious is because I'm an atheist. Go ahead. Well, how would I know the truth, by taking orders from you? From your holy book? Point is, you're arrogant, VJ. To say that only your faith has the monopoly on truth, and that everyone else is wrong, is just plain idiocy. Again, VJ, what made you so special that god chose to reveal himself to you, and not me? And why do you reserve the right to give his message to the world on this ****ty site of yours? And if you say god's true because some dumb book says so, well then, I've got news for you: my grandmother started a cult yesterday, and guess who's the god? Herself. Have fun disproving it! Have fun munching on that, because you can't disprove it. Because its silly and is unwarranted of anyone's time. But it's the same here, with all religions. Look, I'll make it very simple. Very simple for the grown child that you are.

For example if you can imagine it: god, punishing little children to eternal rebirth without explaining why they're being reborn, nor telling them how they can correct it (i.e., I don't care about some preacher in the desert, why can't god tell them face-to-face?). Is this god just? Moreover, is he merciful? I can tell for sure you're scared of going through such hell again, and, thinking you've got the free pass out of it, feel safe in ****ing the rest of us. If this is your god, I want no part of it, I'd be more happy in hell, I'll have great company after all: Newton, Einstein, Hobbs, Hawking. I say let them be reborn, and me too, and together, we're unlock the secrets of the universe while you have tea party with your god.

VJ, let me now tell you something about the poison of religious faith.

Parents often hand on the best of their skills to their children, it gives them a place in society. These are the very best of secular values. Religion, on the other hand - being tribal still - colors the thoughts of little children, it tells little kids not to play with others because "those boys over there don't believe in OUR holy book, and hence, they're going to hell or never-ending rebirth." This is both emotional and physical abuse. Take it a step forward, why don't we tell our children they have to be conservative? No, we let them decide for themselves, so why tell them they're Christian, Hindu, or Muslim? Why tell them that they're more special than all their classmates? And to say that parents have that right, because we take our kids to school, even if they don't want to, is really just a stupid nonessential parallel. And that's my point: I don't let my parents decide for me, you, however, got a big daddy in the sky doing you'rs!

We are at war here, for the minds of children, and I won't let mine be colored by a book written at a time when people didn't know the earth was round. Again, keep your bloody book, it's very bloody alright! Mass genocide, the whole ****. You should be trowing up your dinner about now.

Lastly, the reason I rely on evolution is because I don't go by "religious evidence" as in the evidence stated in some dumb book. After all, no scientist relies on "religious evidence" to explain gravity, VJ. But the best part of it all is very simple, as well as revolutionary: as science keeps pressing forward through the next few centuries, your god of the gaps theory is going to have to squeeze tighter, until there's no space left. Someday, we'll be able to explain everything without god. Evolution's just the tip of the iceberg, pal, its natural selection, but I'm now convinced that Social Darwinism plays a part too, you're the perfect example! Yes, perhaps science can't answer all questions yet, like why you're so **** stupid.

We'll have to wait and see for that one!

Enough said, you can't quote atheists
Vj ~ Yes I can, it was the stepping stone for me and anyone else who desire to abandon credulity.

as a means of mocking another person's faith without acknowledging the fact that he'd do the same for yours. What a total hypocrite!
Vj ~ And where have you or anyone else so far did any "mocking" of my faith?

How do I know your book is bull?
Vj ~ You don't, you've no idea of what it is! How is it possible, by your own admission, you know nothing of my philosophy and yet it makes you an authority on what is bull or not?

But go ahead, tell me I'm blind, impure, whatever.
Vj ~ To be honest, you're not even stupid. You're "intelligent" and full of doubt.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell


VJ. To say that only your faith has the monopoly on truth, and that everyone else is wrong,
Vj ~ If it does have a "monopoly on truth" how would you Know? As I said before man had to be taught and instructions (Vedas) were passed down from the very first civilization.

Veda means knowledge and it is derived from the root verb "ved" which means to know and Sanskrit was the first language known to man.

The Vedic religion was not and is not like other present day religions, nor is it exclusive and confined to the inhabitants of India. It is universal and does not derive its authority from any single person, no matter how holy or wise. It humbly maintains that truth was complementary and not exclusive and contradictory and as such, it commands allegiance to all ages. This true religion of the Vedas never feared the advancement of science, nor was it guilty of terrors of the Inquisition. It never shed the blood of a Galileo, a Copernicus or a Bruno.

All the young and inquisitive minds of past and this modern age are of the fervid impression that the principles of physics, chemistry and of other sciences, had their origination from their European ancestors and that no other race were aware of these before. It is certainly difficult to accredit these sciences to the fallen state of India; nevertheless this is where it all began.

The fixedness of the Sun, the motion of the earth, of fixed and moving stars (the milky way), the planetary systems, of the moons, of earthquakes and hurricanes and many countless branches of sciences can be incontrovertible be proven by the many branches of Vedic philosophy. Even the discovery of the law of gravitation of which many credited Sir Isaac Newton becomes contradicted when many Vedic verses deal with the law of gravitation, thousands of years earlier.

For example if you can imagine it: god, punishing little children to eternal rebirth without explaining why they're being reborn, nor telling them how they can correct it
Vj ~ We were all little children also at one time, but look where we are now. Most are "cocksure", some are "intelligent full of doubt" and a rear few (Aryas) with "monopoly on truth".
The point being I got there through desire to know. I can't take you there, but I can show you the way.
Whatever condition we're born in is decided by the law of karma. What you sow that you reap, no more and no less.

The injustice lies in parenting, the lack of sobriety and impartiality and not God.
"If there should be a conference among the most imaginative minds they will agree that almost all institution of learning are only nurseries of prejudice, corruption, barbarism and pedantry." Anonymous

Someday, we'll be able to explain everything without god.
Vj ~ It is still an injustice "without god". If the truth is somewhere in the future, does it not mean we and those (billions) before were deprived?

but I'm now convinced that Social Darwinism plays a part too
Vj ~ So did Dr. Wallace, at one time!
One of the originators of the Physical Evolution Theory, Dr. A. R. Wallace was the first to strike down the Social Evolution Theory. He rightly affirmed that: "The Veda admittedly the oldest book in the library of mankind contains the essential teachings of the most advanced religious thinkers and is a vast system of religious teachings which are pure and lofty.”

He further wrote in “Social Environment and Moral Progress,” strongly refuting the social and moral evolution theory:
“In the earliest records which have come down to us from the past, we find ample indications that accepted standard of morality and the conduct resulting from these were in no degree inferior to those which prevail today, though in some respects, they were different from ours."

We have to emancipate ourselves from religion. VJ, your faith teaches such crap that your a sinner, and that you'll be reborn forever, and that you don't deserve paradise. . . BUT, God loves you very much. That's the entrance into a cult. As if the human condition couldn't stand much further.

So yes, you can't quote an atheist in an attempt to mock the religion of another's, without admitting that that same atheist would mock yours. You'd fallen for your own hypocrisy. This is no way to live, VJ. And yes, I'll happily mock your faith as long as you mock the theory of evolution and modern science, which, all should admit, contradict faith.

And thank you for calling me intelligent, I won't reserve that title for you as long as your a man of faith. Remember, you're just as "cocksure" you're right, so Mr. Russell's quote applies to everyone or no one.

If the Vedas are universal, why haven't the West heard of them for so long, or the Far East, or Africa, or the peoples of North and South America? The truth is, your gods are mere tribal gods, concerned only with the people who invented them from thin air. And if the Vedas dealt with Newton's theory of gravitation, why haven't we heard of it? I suspect it doesn't; I suspect you've bent the work of a primitive species to match the findings of modern science. Very naughty of you, very naughty indeed!

This karma, is it alive? Who, or what, determines my place in the cosmos? You know what karma teaches? I'll tell you. I once traveled to northern Nepal, it was a business thing. Well, I happened to stumble upon a girl in 5th grade. she was crying, you see, because she just couldn't get math. but rather then try to explain it to her, to support her, to let her grow, the monks there shunned her. They said she deserved her current predicament, that it was her "karma." The sins of her past life. How as shamed. No, really, how very ashamed. This poor thing, instead of developing, just gave up there, on the spot, because of some useless teaching created some few thousand years ago which taught men, women, and children, to be in their place. That's what karma does, that's religion for you, and that's why I say religion, in its very essence, is evil and corrupted. No, VJ, don't blame the parents, blame the doctrine they've been fed, and if they're any successful, they'll deed it to you too.

You say the Aryans got it right. I'm glad of it: so what made them so special? Let's see if your team of "theologian's" can answer that one!

And yes, science without God is breathtaking. Amazing. Poignant, and impregnable. A fortress of stone, a universe without end. I look up in the sky, and I'm amazed by the beauty of it, not because some bearded god put it there without any bother of explanation. And the only reason we, as humanity, were deprived of this truth is not because it was kept hidden away in some holy text, but because we were a primitive species; we needed time to grow. Man can do without religion, without despotism, that's the world I look forward to, and guess what, it's already on it's way, it's already happening!

Dr. Wallace might have aided the Vedic teaching, but that doesn't mean all of us will fall for this foolishness. Hindu Temples say all the time to leave reason at the door. To suspend belief, and think the impossible. I'm sorry, but I'd rather sit at a computer or teach students the value of life than crawl on all fours to a tyrannical deity, begging mercy and forgiveness for unseen sins. Your god requires absolute monarchy.

Social Darwinism, though I hate to say it, appears to be a fact. Again, you refuse to believe logical evidence, for a belief in gods in the clouds. You may believe it, I don't care, just don't try and demand the rest of us to believe winged beasts in the air actually control the cosmos. Just remember this: it wasn't the gods which freed the Indians from their poverty, caste system, and the evil, rotten British Empire, the gods did nothing, they could care less, they were pleased being the pawns of rich men, men who created them. Gandhi used reason to defeat evil, not the power of the gods.

Now, that's all I have to say.

We have to emancipate ourselves from religion.
Vj ~ I agree! I was like you, "intelligent", for 20 years and now, I no longer have a dim understanding of nature
and the origin of matter, material cause of the Universe.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell

And yes, I'll happily mock your faith as long as you mock the theory of evolution
Vj ~ How could you when you know nothing of my faith and how it all began?

so Mr. Russell's quote applies to everyone or no one.
Vj ~ It applies to everyone, except the Aryas who hold the monopoly on truth.

If the Vedas are universal, why haven't the West heard of them for so long, or the Far East, or Africa, or the peoples of North and South America?
Vj ~ I'm from South America and now living in the North and I found it. It is before you now and still there is dire rejection. Why?
"If there should be a conference among the most imaginative minds they will agree that almost all institution of learning are only nurseries of prejudice, corruption, barbarism and pedantry." Anonymous.
The West has colonized the world from Africa and Asia to the Americas and systematically perpetuated this prejudice first among the indigenous through stupidity (Christianity, etc.), and when science took hold the "intelligent" continue the process through the unfounded theory of evolution.

And if the Vedas dealt with Newton's theory of gravitation, why haven't we heard of it?
Vj ~ After the ancient civilization of the Aryas came to an end 5000 years ago, India continued to be richest country in the world and when she was rediscovered by now very backward invaders, no one was interested in science, but plundering her wealth How Britain stole $45 trillion from India
It is the law of nature, when a country becomes wealthy, the greed for power and wealth take hold, thus bringing an end to all sound learning.
There are many Western scholars, including Einstein, who have come to acknowledge, without prejudice, her past glory. What's your excuse?

This karma, is it alive?
Vj ~ It is wherever you see both happiness and suffering. If not it will be an injustice for some the enjoy the best of life and while some dwell in in abject poverty.

Who, or what, determines my place in the cosmos?
Vj ~ You do! And remember, ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Children's suffering and other sub-human conditions are only the tip of the iceberg, you can go as low as vegetation and creatures of land, sea and air.

No, VJ, don't blame the parents, blame the doctrine they've been fed
Vj ~ And you think you're better off with your present doctrine? If you do, you can't blame the doctrine can you?

You say the Aryans got it right. I'm glad of it: so what made them so special?
Vj ~ What could be more special than having the monopoly on truth?

And yes, science without God is breathtaking.
Vj ~ Again, you're bragging how much smarter you are than Einstein - "science without religion is lame....."

but because we were a primitive species; we needed time to grow.
Vj ~ The laws of nature dictates progression to be always downward. It simple means, we couldn't have had our origin from a primitive state. Yes, there was a fall to a primitive state a few thousand years ago, but as you can see by my presence, the truth hasn't completely disappeared.

that's the world I look forward to, and guess what, it's already on it's way, it's already happening!
Vj ~ Of course, the fall continues. It is called decadence and retrogression. Civilization as we now know it, will again disappear, reducing us again to a primitive state. This will continue to happen every 6 to 10,000 years for the next 426,000 years, the end of the next minor dissolution of the universe.

Dr. Wallace might have aided the Vedic teaching, but that doesn't mean all of us will fall for this foolishness.
Vj ~ Remember what is foolish to the ignorant is sensible to the intelligent. You don't want to go back to being "cocksure", do you?
Darwin screwed his own cousin and wondered why his children were deformed (mentally and physically). The Vedas which according Western records, have been around for 3500 years, taught that co-habitation (incest) with kindred is the cause of such deformities. So if you think Wallace was the foolish one and not Darwin, you're fast losing your "intelligent" state.

Hindu Temples say all the time to leave reason at the door.
Vj ~ You can't even debate sensible! So which ape-man gave you the idea I'm Hindu?

but I'd rather sit at a computer or teach students the value of life
Vj ~ And what is that "value of life", being intelligent and full of doubts.

Social Darwinism, though I hate to say it, appears to be a fact.
Vj ~ How is it a fact, when it only "appears" so? No wonder you hate to say it.

Gandhi used reason to defeat evil
Vj ~ You don't know shi-t! Gandhi was an ignoramus and traitor! It was this reformer who is responsible for India's freedom. It was his book the "Light of Truth which the British banned, " that shook the nation and gave rise to the many freedom fighters when they were reminded of their once glorious empire.
The most popular of them had this to say:
"Swami Dayananda Saraswati is certainly one of the most powerful personalities who has shaped modern India and is responsible for its moral regeneration and religious revival". Subhas Chandra Bose.
His army of freedom fighters were defeated due to betrayal, at the end of WWII and the British made the mistake of hanging the top leaders and thus the British controlled Indian army, navy and air-force stood down and thus the British already weakened by the war had no other alternative but to leave India.

So VJ, did you get a boost of intelligence the last twenty years? Were you a dummy until you left atheism? I don't think that's how it works, intelligence, my friend, doesn't fluctuate like that. I wished it did, because then I could be dumb enough to be a theist, ha!

Your faith, like all the cults of civilization, began like any other. Don't puncture me on it, because I know how it started. It started like any other faith, one based on the basic assumption that there's an extension of hope, in the face of endless desperation. A heaven in lace of the grave. The chaos religion brings with it is suppose to give purpose in a dying world; but the world doesn't have to die. A world where we can exchange rational ideas and promote progress without the chains of religion, is a world well alive for centuries to come, and definitely one worth living for.

The Aryans' claim to monopoly is mutually exclusive, for it rejects the rest of humanity as being stupid enough to have not discovered such truths. Again, you've failed to answer my question, instead, you pontificate: why did your god, the supposed creator of the world, fail to spread his "good news" to the whole earth? Why did he chose one group of people? And don't tell me their special, that's circular reasoning.

Another point: your book doesn't mention gravity, nor anything remotely scientific. Science is the means by which we analyses a hypothesis, make a prediction, and then test that hypothesis. You can't do that with religion. Faiths not a science, it can't be tested. No one can make a prediction on whether or not some god's going to return in the near future. If we're going to again receive divine Revelation. It's untestable, and hence, unscientific. You can believe it if you want, but it's like yourself that your left hand is no longer your left, but your right. No go ahead and make a fool of yourself, I, to be frank, don't care.

That's how I'm able to conclude that your holy text doesn't mention gravity, rather, you want to "pretend" it exists in there, because we all know science contradicts faith, and so you have to pull strings to keep it alive. Just like the myth that there was once a great Indian civilization which ruled the world, again, I ask you, where's the evidence? Nowhere! You can say the force of karma exists, but we can't test it, nor can we see the effects of it in the real world, aside from myth-making and other nonsense.

I'm afraid, VJ, that you didn't understand my question. Does karma judge my place in the universe? Does god, who does it? Certainly not you.

Now I'll briefly remark on some other comments:

1) Evolution, unlike faith, isn't a doctrine. It doesn't ask you to believe in anything, it doesn't decide your morals. It's simple empirical science. It has no dogma.

2) You don't understand natural law, I'm sick of explaining it to a birdbrain. Progression is only downwards in a closed system. This is my last try. As far as you being proof of anything, it's just the opposite. You prove we're still idiots in need of more discovery and less faith.

3) Now let me ask you this? What's the purpose for god to continually destroy the universe and rebuild? Why even bother? Why even bother working your way up to enlightenment if you're going to fall again in 426,000 years?

4) To criticize Darwin's character is mean. It's ad hominem, so you already lost.

5) I don't care what you are, your religious texts, the Vedas, mainly belong to old Hinduism. Your new sect is a modern development, no matter what your book says.

6) What did your Reformer do again to free India which Gandhi failed to do? Who was the activist fighting for decades?

7) And what would you call the "value of life," sitting and praying ceaselessly to a divine friend who doesn't exist? Sure, that'll do a lot to end global warming, will it!

Your faith, like all the cults of civilization, began like any other.
Vj ~ Ok, now you're saying you do know something of my faith. Excellent job Camel!

Don't puncture me on it, because I know how it started.
Vj ~ Any puncturing, it will be your own doing. Tell me when and where it started?

The Aryans' claim to monopoly is mutually exclusive, for it rejects the rest of humanity as being stupid enough to have not discovered such truths.
Vj ~ It has been available for centuries by the very people who were under foreign (Western) subjugation, and if it weren't stupidity and greed what else could be the reason for not discovering it?

Why did he chose one group of people?
Vj ~ He didn't have to choose, as there was only one group of people to begin with, and they were indeed special, a gift of good karma.

Another point: your book doesn't mention gravity, nor anything remotely scientific.
Vj ~ Does your academic certificates have this equation (F=G{frac {m_{1}m_{2}}{r^{2}}} ) on it?
A prejudicial mind is an affront to honest inquiry and genuine learning. "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein. If you can't acknowledge the words of one of your own, a genius as Einstein, how will be possible to put an end to your stupidity?

No go ahead and make a fool of yourself, I, to be frank, don't care.
Vj ~ If there is a fool, it is you - "Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein - can you explain what he is really trying to say here?

where's the evidence?
Vj ~ If you need the evidence, here is what you have to do.
Be ready to instantly reject any ideology you hold and see yourself as a child, inquisitive, honest and innocent, free of prejudice and bigotry, in pursuit of this truth as Albert Einstein rightly explains it:
"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."

Does karma judge my place in the universe?
Vj ~ You and you alone is responsible for your "place" in the Universe. Ignorance of the laws are no excuse. What you sow that you reap, nothing more or less.

2) You don't understand natural law, I'm sick of explaining it to a birdbrain.
Vj ~ So you're saying Einstein was a"birdbrain"?
"We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws." Albert Einstein

Why even bother working your way up to enlightenment if you're going to fall again in 426,000 years?
Vj ~ Why bother seeking an education, build a family, practice morals, etc. when in the end all is for naught?

4) To criticize Darwin's character is mean. It's ad hominem, so you already lost.
Vj ~ Truth is mean my friend and it can be only cure for stupidity if it is not too far gone.

Your new sect is a modern development, no matter what your book says.
Vj ~ And isn't it good thing "modern development" has uplifted me from Darwin's ignorance to Einstein's state of philosophy and reasoning.
"Philosophy and reason will remain the most beautiful sanctuary they have always been for the select few." Einstein

Who was the activist fighting for decades?
Vj ~ The ones emboldened by my philosophy were the activists who did the fighting and they were all slaughtered or sent to the gallows. All betrayed by Gandhi, who stood and watched, hiding like a coward behind the curtain of non-violence. So don't lecture me on my history.

7) And what would you call the "value of life," sitting and praying ceaselessly to a divine friend who doesn't exist?
Vj ~ "Nothing can be made without a Maker." Vedanta. If you think otherwise be my guest. I don't give shi-t where you end up.

I think we’re going in endless circles, much like rebirth itself. None of us will ever convince the other, so this may be my last post, my Christmas present - leaving you behind.

So truth was freely available? I don’t think so. Everyone would be of the Vedic tradition then. Even if there were one group of people, why did he allow them to break up?

No, you never bothered to respond to my equation.

Never called Einstein a birdbrain, you? Any day.

Why build a family? It’s the only way we’re remembered, why not progress the human race, it’s all we have!

And you fail to understand Gandhi because he fought against your new faith. If your people used violence, India would still be fighting for its surivival; MLKJ was inspired by Gandhi, yet, you hate him. Your religion preaches violence, f’ck it. And if you don’t give a s-it what happens to me, same here.

Merry Christmas, as-hol-.

I think we’re going in endless circles, much like rebirth itself.
Vj ~ Seems you have much to hide! It is the only idea where no one escape justice?

None of us will ever convince the other
Vj ~ That would depend on who needs convincing! I cannot go back to "intelligent and full of doubts" and you have to be more than foolish to remain there.

Even if there were one group of people, why did he allow them to break up?
Vj ~ I've already explained He is not above law. Progression is downwards, where all things finite must come to an end. A car in spite of the best care cannot last forever. The same with the most civilized group.

No, you never bothered to respond to my equation.
Vj ~ Einstein did and if you can't get pass him, you got a very serious problem which I can't solve.

Never called Einstein a birdbrain, you? Any day.
Vj ~ "We owe a lot to Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made." Albert Einstein
What are you really saying then, when you're in denial of the above?

And you fail to understand Gandhi because he fought against your new faith.
Vj ~ Here is what his assassin had to say of him, which is exactly what I think of him also.

And if you don’t give a s-it what happens to me, same here.

Vj ~ If you don't give a shi-t what happens to you, why should I?

Merry Christmas,
Vj ~ That's what the Pope says at this time of the year. How can he be sincere about it when he is fully aware more than half of the people he is expressing it to, are going to burn in hell for the rest of eternity?

What do you mean by "the only place which I have to hide"? Hide from what? Do you think I need karma and rebirth to distinguish justice and evil? What a sell out. I'd ask, what is one escaping? I thought the goal was to end rebirth? But such a fairy tale, of course, hasn't proved its existence, nor will it ever.

The point of intelligence, is principle. One is full of doubts because one cannot know all. We are finite beings, not the maker of heaven and earth.

Your view is that of pessimism. You don't see a future for mankind, you don't see progress; I do. That, my friend, is the ultimate divide between me and you, faith and reason. Religion teaches the past, atheism, the future. We build rockets, you study ancient texts. We cannot be more alike in your thought-process nor mentality.

VJ, there was never any equation I proposed Einstein solve. You must not read what I write, try taking medication for ADHD. The equation of gravity was presented - it was your job to find the exact equation in your holy text, which you failed to do.
Note also that Einstein wasn't a Hindu, or a Christian, or a Jew (in the religious sense), nor whatever you want to call yourself. Einstein was an atheist, and while he did admire India, for her lofty achievements in the modern world, he wasn't religious, he did not worship the Vedas, and nor did he believe that there was once a time where India ruled the world under a glorious civilization, the one of which your text speaks of. If Einstein were indeed a believer in the Vedas, can you pull out a quote of his (with a source) which proves it? But I ought to know better: you never take my challenges seriously.

Lastly, I DO give a crap what happens to me, you misread me. I DON'T give a **** what happens to you.

And lastly, you misunderstand the Pope, ever hear of Vatican II? Though it's all belloni.

I'd ask, what is one escaping?
Vj ~ Pain and misery, which no one relishes.

I thought the goal was to end rebirth?
Vj ~ If you were paying attention, which is what you should be doing, when you're full of doubts, you wouldn't have wasted a whole "thought".
There is no end to rebirth. The souls are eternal, but its actions are finite and finite actions (virtuous and sinful) can only reap finite rewards or punishment.

One is full of doubts because one cannot know all.
Vj ~ Just tell me, how can one "full of doubts" know that one "cannot know all"?
It's like a totally ignorant person saying you're stupid.

We are finite beings, not the maker of heaven and earth.
Vj ~ Are you being hypocritical here? A Maker?

You don't see a future for mankind, you don't see progress;
Vj ~ Progress is measured by spirituality (peace and contentment) and the laws of nature is not a friend of this finite process. Progression is downwards and not upwards.
This age is only a "select few" who with the will and courage to make the effort, can.

it was your job to find the exact equation in your holy text, which you failed to do.
Vj ~ You see the ones "cocksure" failures and I consider the ones full of doubts failures!

We build rockets, you study ancient texts.
Vj ~ That's ok! If every one study my ancient texts, there would be huge shortage of pork, beef, chicken, etc.

If Einstein were indeed a believer in the Vedas, can you pull out a quote of his (with a source) which proves it?
Vj ~ "Philosophy and reason will remain the most beautiful sanctuary they have always been for the select few." Einstein
In his latter years he found the solace of peace and comfort to the point where he refused the Presidency of Israel.
I'm experiencing the same, I retired at the age 51. Have been single for 10 years now, have no assets (property and financial) I have no passport. All I do in my peaceful and humble state, a few hours of yoga a day with no desire to go anywhere.
We both found sanctuary from boredom in philosophy and reasoning.

I'm not here to prove anything to anyone, I'm here displaying my true nature by showing one the way.

Lastly, I DO give a crap what happens to me,
Vj ~ How could you, when you're full of doubts?

PS
I do golf in the summer.

I'm glad you know that rebirth is eternal, now tell me, where's your empirical evidence for that?

I'm glad you know that rebirth is eternal,
Vj ~ See, I can still make you glad now and then.

now tell me, where's your empirical evidence for that?
Vj ~ What good would that do? You claim you've evidence for evolution also, why aren't the rest of the world accepting it?

Most of the world accepts evolution, you're just a dummy.

Most of the world accepts evolution, you're just a dummy.
Vj ~ Most of the world are either "stupid or blind" or "full of doubts or lame". Are you happy with that?

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell

"Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein.